An Interesting Discussion Regarding Arisia

[zentinal.livejournal.com]

An interesting discussion between an Arisia newcomer / observer & someone who dismisses f&sf fandom in total - Weigh In, Have Fun! http://bit.ly/8Wt2d6

Comments

[surrealestate.livejournal.com]

There is indeed some interesting stuff there. I'm a bit confused, though, at how a seemingly-intelligent person like the writer appears to be can really believe that what a person does at Arisia is accurately representative of what they do the other 361 days of the year. Does he think we wear those costumes to work, too?

He acknowledges that it's all fine in moderation but then jumps to the conclusion that Arisia attendees use "escapism" as a lifestyle. I'm sure that's true for some people, but it's certainly not the case for the most of the ones I know.

[thevirtualjim.livejournal.com]

Heh, interesting is one word for it. I never understood why when some people don't like something they have to bash it.

I was indirectly quoted in the article too :)

[tehuti.livejournal.com]

What bit was that?

[aristabulus.livejournal.com]

You think the article is rough? Skim the comment branch with quackenbush; he makes rosenfield look like a saint by comparison.

[anotherjen.livejournal.com]

It's so tempting to jump in and join the fray, but unlike what the guy seems to believe, I have shit to do in the "real world."

[anotherjen.livejournal.com]

Okay, I actually couldn't resist. But I only wrote a couple of lines, unlike the several-paragraph response I was preparing in my head.

here and in general...

[thnidu.livejournal.com]

Do not feed the troll.

Re: here and in general...

[aquila-dominus.livejournal.com]

I had started down the path of feeding, realized what I was about to do and then deleted the comment and decided I didn't need a piece of that.

Re: here and in general...

[alpha-helixx.livejournal.com]

Agreed. The quackenbush person especially seems to be looking for a fight. :/

Though, I do want to quote one comment that I feel sums up what I think about this whole thing. I think this person has the right idea.

"I'm an Arisia-goer, who would much rather be sewing a costume or making up a filk song than broadcasting cruel and hurtful things about an entire community of people. I think a real test of being a "grown-up" is knowing when to keep your smallminded opinions to yourself. Shame on you."

[palusbuteo.livejournal.com]

wow. Crazy. :P

I figure with most group activities, you get out what you put into it.

"steampunk are goths who discovered brown"

that is totally awesome and funny :D

[ultimatepsi.livejournal.com]

Honestly, the turning point of the article is the line "I spent most of the con trying to understand exactly why, rather than feeling like I belonged, I felt extremely uncomfortable, even repulsed." Before that it seems like an entirely reasonable report of a con experience, after that a post hoc justification for feelings of discomfort.

I believe that as a community we would do well to acknowledge that some people who share our interest in sci-fi and fantasy are uncomfortable at Arisia. I have heard this sentiment of "I was told Arisia would be like home, but it very much wasn't" from friends more than once. It is a valid complaint and not an attack.

[http://users.livejournal.com/_kollision/]

Meh, I love Arisia. It's my favorite event all year I think. But there are certain people there that I am repulsed by. And others that I relate to very well and whose company I enjoy. Still, what he said was rude. =(

[robdamnit.livejournal.com]

While I am glad to see some of my fannish friends contributing to the effort of educating this egocentric boor I have no time to engage a person so clearly beneath my contempt.

[cos]

Why are you using the URL shortener here? I, and many other people, often don't click on shortened URLs because they don't let us see where we're going to be led until we go there (all normal links let you see that by hovering the mouse over the link without clicking).

[zentinal.livejournal.com]

Habit.

I very, very, very, rarely post to LJ.

[thespian.livejournal.com]

a response from the 'woman I talked to [who] referred to Arisia specifically as a “lifestyle con”.'

http://thespian.livejournal.com/1504407.html

[vvalkyri.livejournal.com]

I saw your original post, and I'd been meaning to ask: I've never heard 'lifestyle' in that context before - I've only heard it as a euphemism for a swinger club. Do you think that the blogger was also thinking in that direction?

Granted, in trying to figure out how to answer the snack bar lady's query of "what is this convention about?" I ended up telling her it was a gathering of like minded people with lots of different sorts of interests.

[pierceheart.livejournal.com]

Maybe my count is off, but there were only three five poly panels.

Quoting Jane Q. over on that othe rsite:

I wish very strongly that the convention had a few less poly panels in the alternative lifestyle track.

What alternative lifestyle track?
http://2010.arisiahosting.org/Tracks2010#Fan%20Interest

[surrealestate.livejournal.com]

I can't tell if you're being sarcastic here. I count over a dozen panels that would qualify as "alternative lifestyle" which is enough to make a track whether or not they were grouped as such.

Even as someone who is involved in such things, I think that's too much.

[twistpeach.livejournal.com]

I think the vitriol level speaks louder about Quackenbush than the reasoning. It does make me wonder what happened to the poor guy that scared and repulsed him so badly. We're right to point out that, for many, Arisia is a vacation: a time to explore, escape, experiment. I've used it as such myself. But Quack is right that moral relativism can blind us to the proper emotional repulsion of bad things.

I've also felt the pressure to accept things I found morally questionable, even hurtful, under the guise of "who are you to question." And I have felt like responding "someone who gives a damn if you treat that person badly, even if they wouldn't object." I've seen WoW eat my friends. I've watched no one care enough to drag them off the computer for fear of "judging them". And I'm with Quack. Screw that cowardice. That's exactly what it is. Cowardice in the guise of acceptance.

I've also enjoyed acting like a slut and roleplaying things that would explode me in ire if anyone were to ask me to live like that. I'm an actress, and I know how to draw a line between a role and me. I also know how shady and dangerous that line can get, even for me. And honestly, that's part of why I play. How else can I explore what doesn't have room in my normal life if not in a special context like art or performance (or con). I'm bigger than what I live. And it ain't always pretty, nice, or fit for the public.

And I've been on the other side of it too. I had a marvelous time playing a Na'vi on a leash led by a marine. But we got some blowback from somebody who saw us tussle and didn't want her kids thinking women should be treated that way. And, while I was disappointed that I couldn't do what I bloody wanted whenever I felt like it, I can't say I blame her. We were in a public lobby, and we didn't have "this is pretend" signage up anywhere. I wouldn't want my little boy having that image burned on his absorbent little brain. Hell, I wouldn't want anyone thinking that was "normal."

I don't want anyone thinking that it was okay to treat me like that without being my trusted acting buddy and having my permission. Because I'd pop you in the mouth if you tried. I don't want to live in a world where I have to pop people in the mouth a lot.

I dunno, guys. I like fantasy as much as the next girl. But I'm disturbed by folks who make it their whole lives. I LIKE IT that things are normal. I like it that we're polite and that there are conventions that protect me. I LIKE having a real life I can escape occasionally. :)

[vvalkyri.livejournal.com]

OT: that was a marvelous costume. I've still yet to deal with the pictures I took over the weekend, but if they came out well I've probably got a few to send you.

[swashbucklr]

There are many people in this world who have a hard time finding fulfillment in their lives, and so they look to things outside their "real" lives in order to get it. For those involved with fandom, they find it in places like Arisia, and in the community that creates and supports it. This is not necessarily a bad thing, as everyone looks for a place where they belong, where they can be the person they want to be, and act the way they want to act. It's why people refer to Pennsic or Arisia as "Home".

The problem is that for most people, fandom can only be one aspect of our lives. The rest of the world, fulfilling or not, has demands it places upon us that we ignore at our peril. But some people would rather not have the real life to deal with, and just escape full-time. The lucky ones are the ones who can make a living at it, but the rest seem off-balance to me, like things are out of sync. I try very hard to balance my nerd needs with what the world expects of me, and I don't try and hide either from one another. I like the feeling of empowerment, of fulfillment, that I get from enjoying my "real life" while also enjoying the high I get from places and events like Arisia.

My life would be a sad thing without both.

[thevirtualjim.livejournal.com]

"But we got some blowback from somebody who saw us tussle and didn't want her kids thinking women should be treated that way. "

I wonder if she would have felt the same if it was the woman leading the man on the leash and 'tussling'

BTW, that was some great outfits!

[selkiechick]

Meh. I have read this article before. "Aren't these weird people awful?" with some truths, and some half-truths. I know that my community isn't perfect... what one is... but really... I almost wish I hadn't given him the web-hit.

[crazybone.livejournal.com]

I've heard this before from various people. Namely, "If this is a science fiction convention, why do you have X? How is it related to SF/F?" If the author's experience with SF cons is with things like Readercon, I can understand that Arisia can be quite a culture shock.
That's not a dig on the author. It's about expectations and what you bring to the table in your perception of what makes a good convention. There are cons I've gone to where I've felt out of place despite the fact that I was surrounded by people who were "my tribe" so to speak. It doesn't mean the con is bad, just not the place for me.

[jadasc.livejournal.com]

If the author's experience with SF cons is with things like Readercon, I can understand that Arisia can be quite a culture shock.

Moreover, it looks as though the author of the piece is most familiar with things like the San Diego Comic Con, which is somewhere between a professional outlet and a marketing junket.