Park Plaza screw-up

[bobquasit.livejournal.com]

I was just talking to a friend of mine, and discovered something interesting: the Park Plaza screwed up again.

Okay, please don't hit me with the "whiner" response. I don't need that. I've gone to EVERY Arisia, and there's no bigger fan of the con than me. I've volunteered, done amateur video, panels, and most recently helped a Masquerade contestant, all right? I support the con.

If this sort of comment pisses you off, do me a favor and don't read any more.

It's not "treason to Arisia" to point out that the Park Plaza has made some serious screw-ups over the years. A year or two ago they demanded a cash deposit of $1,000.00 from me, in addition to having $500 clear on my debit card, before they'd let me have the room I'd reserved. I never worked out the accounting, but I'm pretty damned sure that they made a lot more money from me than they should have.

This year I couldn't afford a hotel room, by the way.

Anyway, my friend was staying at the hotel. The staff was nice, but when the blizzard hit my friend was stranded (she's from out of state, and the bus lines shut down on Sunday). She tried to use her debit card to get the room for another day, but her card was denied.

As a result, her young nephew and his friend had to crash with friends. She volunteered for six hours in the con suite, and when she started to fall asleep was kicked out of the room by Security; I understand about rules, but when there's a bleeping SNOW EMERGENCY in the state and everyone is trapped, a little tolerance seems called for.

Anyway, after it was all over she found that the hotel had charged her double for her room. That's why she couldn't afford the third day. She was able to get a refund later, but the whole thing seems incredibly stupid. If the hotel HADN'T double-charged her, they could have ultimately made MORE money for the third day.

Did anyone else have a problem like this? Just wondering.

Please note, I'm not asking anyone to fix anything, and I am NOT blaming Arisia for this. I just find it interesting that the Park Plaza keeps having this sort of problem, that's all.

Hell, I probably shouldn't post this at all. I know I'm going to get slammed for it. Oh well, I can always delete it.

Comments

[rennie-frog.livejournal.com]

In my experience, the Park Plaza routinely screws up various things... This year it was losing a package that was mailed to me. 24 hours and many inquiries finally found my package.

[azaz-al.livejournal.com]

Perhaps I am too new to Arisia and not well involved enough to know why anyone would consider it treason to Arisia to post this.
I have been going to Arisia for 3 years and every year the Park Plaza is a bear to deal with. My day job is as a meeting planner, so I go to a lot of hotels throughout the course of a year, and I can say definitively that I've seen much, much better service offered to conference goers elsewhere. Granted, I deal with more businessy people and perhaps the perception is that attendees of business conferences deserve more respect or something, but that seems to be a poor business move. As a meeting planner, given my Arisia experiences, I would never recommend my company hold a conference at the Park Plaza.

[quietann.livejournal.com]

I have heard (though I don't remember the source) that since Starwood bought a half-interest in the Park Plaza, they have been using it as a training site for new staff. This might be part of the problem...

[azaz-al.livejournal.com]

Hmmm...

[xdaemon.livejournal.com]

From the perspective of the conferece services, I'll have to defend them. Pretty much everyone I know of who interacted with catering, engineering, etc. had a great overall experience (this has been a *major* topic of discussion on the staff mailing list for the last several days).

The problems that I've been aware of (include some of my own) have all been with registration and the front desk.

[dda.livejournal.com]

I can also say that the Convention Services people did a great job, especially given the circumstances. I don't know much about other conventions but I'll bet they aren't like Arisia; they don't have the room turns we do, nor do they use the multiple meeting rooms the way we do.

Even when things aren't the way we want them, they are good to deal with (and yes, I've had to deal with them when I was cranky since an event was gonna happen shortly).

And now for the typical con-related response, "If you have experience please consider volunteering and either providing us with hotel info or helping with the hotel resume for next year." :-)

[unquietsoul5.livejournal.com]

I have been to other conventions, and some of them have been at hotels that were much better at dealing with things (and made less screwups) then the Park Plaza has over the many years and various changes in management.

Granted these were experiences OUTSIDE the Boston area (Lunacon for one example).

The problem is with the Plaza is it is the only venue big enough and affordable in Boston for Arisia. We're sort of stuck with it.

[xdaemon.livejournal.com]

Fortunately, it's NOT the only venue that meets the needs. If nothing else, the Sheraton (where Boskone is) would work.

[dda.livejournal.com]

I must say I dislike the Sheraton a lot. Everything is too spread out and there is no single "hang out" area, the way the Mezzanine is for the Park Plaza. Does the Sheraton have anything like the Imperial Ballroom?

I will admit to never staying in the Sheraton for a Boskone so perhaps they deal with the hotel aspects better than the BPP but then I've never had problems with the BPP as a hotel, other than the antiquated heating system and resultant Sahara atmosphere. :-(

[xdaemon.livejournal.com]

In general I won't argue with you there - the Sheraton isn't that great. But the space right around the Grand Ballroom would work for a hangout space (seemed to work OK for N4), and the Grand is a great space to work in. Not as nice as the Imperial in the BPP for architecture, but a great venue nonetheless.

Of course, I'm looking at this from the perspective of tech, and how easy it was to rig that room for 7.1 surround for a 1000-seat film room projecting 35 and 70mm film, along with digital projection. It *would* cost more for us to do much of anything tech-wise, though. 8 hours of a rigger's time is the better part of $1000 that we've never needed to spend before.

[dda.livejournal.com]

But the space right around the Grand Ballroom would work for a hangout space (seemed to work OK for N4)

If this is the space I'm thinking of, I don't think it worked that well compared to the Mezzanine. There were several places in the whole mall that people were hanging out and while there are also different places people hang out in the BPP (Dealer's Row, Con Suite, Staff Den), those places would exist in the Sheraton, too.

I just remember walking all over the freakin' place just to get from one place to another at N4. Heck, the BPP was hard enough on my feet (and yours!)...

8 hours of a rigger's time is the better part of $1000 that we've never needed to spend before.

Yikes! That is a chunk of change that I doubt people would want to spend. Of course, if it brought in a few hundred more fen, it would be worth it. I can imagine that the BPP is a Tech nightmare, though. It is an old hotel that has been redone several times and it does show occasionally.

Oh well, barring anything weird, it will be in the BPP next year and I can only assume folks are looking at all the options for 2007.

[deguspice.livejournal.com]

Apparently any time Starwood wants to test a new system, they try it on the Park Plaza.

The "Volunteer or shut up" thing

[bobquasit.livejournal.com]

Some people take even the slightest criticism of the con as treason, or something. Their reactions can get pretty extreme.

And there has been a tendency in the past to close ranks and minds in reaction to that. Some of the gripe sessions turned kind of ugly, to tell you the truth. I should probably note here that I was not involved in any of that sort of thing myself; I have not personally had any conflict with the con.

Well, in a sort of indirect way I kinda did (just a little bit) for one or two years early on, but nobody really knew it; you can read my con report (when it's finally finished) for the details, if you're all that desperate to know. That stuff was all settled long ago.

In any case Arisia has always been the high point of my year. I love the con.

The thing is, there's an automatic response that's often made when anyone complains about any aspect of the con: "If you don't like it, volunteer and fix it." I hate that response. I don't think it's fair, and it's definitely not good for Arisia.

If you're not willing to take over a portion of the convention (which isn't always possible anyway), then somehow you're disqualified from pointing out a problem? That doesn't make sense. What about people who live far away? People with other committments? People who already do other things for the con?

This argument is a sneer at people, some of whom may well be habitual complainers and nothing more than a pain in the ass, but some of whom are probably raising legitimate issues that the con should address. It implies that their complaints are just personal whining, sour grapes because their petty little wishes weren't satisfied.

But there have been times when I've seen people complain legitimately. Times when the con had promised something, and then gone back on it - not necessarily out of malice, but because an advertised event was forgotten, for example. If those people were silenced with the "volunteer or shut up" argument, the con would have lost valuable feedback, and that would handicap Arisia's ability to learn from mistakes and improve. Not a good idea!

Okay, I've definitely talked more than I should about this. It's all ancient history as far as I'm concerned, and it would probably have been wiser to let it be forgotten.

Re: The "Volunteer or shut up" thing

[sebastian-tombs.livejournal.com]

I don't think volunteering would help the typical Park Plaza issues...

Unless you volunteered to work for the hotel for the seveal months leading up to the convention, guaranteeing that the reservations for the congoers were kept, that specific room types promised (and not over-booked), and that the hotel even tried to put people into the right places at checkin.

Re: The "Volunteer or shut up" thing

[genderfur.livejournal.com]

Yeah, yeah, I know. I didn't even go to the event....

"If you don't like it, volunteer and fix it."

This is bad because it assumes that anyone who volunteers can do any damn thing they want; and if someone is a volunteer, you can't fire them. Both ideas cause lots of problems, IMO.

I think it's also a misinterpretation of the much-better idea: don't make a complaint if you can't also offer a suggestion for improvement.

[quietann.livejournal.com]

well, as one of this year's Innkeepers, I can say that once again, yes, the Park Plaza did screw up. But actually, there were fewer screw-ups this year than before.

One thing people should know if they are having problems is that we have Hotel Liasons to deal with issues like this. They are Men In Suits who will stand over the hotel staff and make them do their jobs, if necessary. In this case, they probably would have insisted on looking at the hotel statement for your friend, and found the error right away.

After next year, Arisia might move. No hotel is perfect, but the Park Plaza has just gotten a bit too comfortable relying on Arisia for January income.

[bobquasit.livejournal.com]

By the time my friend realized what had happened, the con was over. But it's good to know Liason is there for next year.

As for moving...sigh. I'm a traditionalist, in some ways. I'll admit that I'm very fond of the Park Plaza; my grandfather used to work down the street from there, and took his lunches in their lobby. So there's a long family history.

But quality certainly has gone up and down over the years. I was terribly disappointed when they closed the Cafe Rouge many years ago; their breakfast buffet was far superior to the one that they serve now (although that's still better than it was 5-6 years ago). I remember the Lafayette, and the Vista; they weren't perfect either, and of course the Lafayette is long gone.

The biggest advantage of the Park Plaza, I guess, is the location. Arisia definitely needs to stay in Boston, I think; that year in Waltham wasn't bad, but it certainly put a strain on things.

And if a new hotel was MORE expensive...that would be bad.

Now I'm curious. I wonder how interested other hotels would be hosting the con? Would they be interested enough to bid for it? Probably not.

[xdaemon.livejournal.com]

Yet another major Arisia Corp discussion going on...

Probably they won't bid, per se, but we'll get proposals from several.

Problem is that we're really straining the Park Plaza at the seams, so we want to find more space. I don't know how many options in the Boston area that leaves us (I'm in Albany, NY and don't really know Boston hotels).

And since next year is the second 1 year extension to our multi-year contract that expired in 2004... we really should be shopping around. Moving would suck in a lot of ways, but it might be a good thing in the end.

To reiterate the comment about the hotel liasons, problems with the hotel are what they're for. Any hotel problem, go to Con Operations and ask for a Hotel Liason. Or if you spot someone wearing a suit and a con badge, look again at the ribbons - you probably just found one of them.

[miraba.livejournal.com]

Corp stuff? I put my name on the mailing list at the con meeting, but I haven't gotten anything yet. Is the person in charge of the ml on lj?

That's me!

[clauclauclaudia]

Sorry about the delay. I'll get you added this evening.

Can anyone be added?

[bobquasit.livejournal.com]

Like, me? :D

Re: Can anyone be added?

[clauclauclaudia]

I'm sorry, the corporate e-mail list is only for members of the corporation. But mail me at clerk @ arisia.org if I can help you with anything. I'm pondering ways to improve communications with the fans right now.

[swashbucklr]

Considering that I lived outside of Boston at the time, the year in Waltham was pretty good for me. Being able to park on-site and not worry about tickets or paying parking fees was a big relief.

Now, I just pack light and take the T.

[unquietsoul5.livejournal.com]

I didn't attend the year in Waltham (and I was Living in Waltham then) because there was no transport available from where I was to get to the convention. With no public transport services (there was an airport shuttle, but that was useless since I was already in that city). Waltham is a horrid place to live without a car, with bad transportation all the way around (I spent more than 25 years living there, so I have lots of first hand experience).

Unfortunately my favorite hotel in the area, the MIT hotel, is way too small for a big convention like Arisia.

[swashbucklr]

Well, that'd do it. I've had a car since I was able to drive.

[perspicuity.livejournal.com]

were they not running shuttles to/from the T station as well when in waltham?

#

[unquietsoul5.livejournal.com]

Not at that time... later Waltham itself started a 'City Bus Service' that went from the Central Square Waltham up to 128 and the hotels, and then shut it down owing the bus company 6 months of operational costs.

Right now there is no service from Central Square Waltham (where the Bus Service and Commuter rail station is) and when the hotels are up by 128, and its been that way for a number of years. Nor do the hotels offer a shuttle, except out to the airport.

[perspicuity.livejournal.com]

ah, the one i was thinking of was run/paid for by arisia to get people to/from the T to the con. didn't use it, so i don't know the particulars, but i was sure there was one. oh well.

#

[mycroft.livejournal.com]

Actually, the Waltham bus service did run for a few years. It was paid for by federal grant money (something about funding public transit for a limited time in places that don't have it, to see if it's viable), and was fully expected to shut down when the grant ended. It was still running as of last April -- I know because I used it then.

[unquietsoul5.livejournal.com]

It doesn't run anymore and there was a scandal involved because the bus company stopped it after 6 months of non-payment. The City and the bus company involved ended up in court over it, according to the Tribune, the local newspaper in waltham. It hasn't been running since at least last June, possibly earlier, according to my roomate who works in that city.

[bryttan.livejournal.com]

Hmmm, that's odd, I seem to recall grabbing the 70A from Central Sq Cambridge, through Waltham Center & out to the Westin (& then back again to Cambridge to get to the Red Line to the Blue Line to get to the airport to fly to TX :) that year for Arisia. I might have had to walk a block or so in the snow with my bags, but I don't recall it being that far/difficult to use public transit.

Of course, I was only the assistant to Reg that year, so didn't have to schlep anything con-stuff in myself, maybe that's what's throwing me off?

I'm pretty sure the 70A still goes out that way on its regular tour. And where does the 170 come in; it goes through a lot of that general area as well.

[unquietsoul5.livejournal.com]

70 A didn't run on sundays and I believe stops service early in the evening most days (or did when I lived in waltham back then). The 70 runs all the time of normal T service, but goes up to cedarwood (They both run past my current home in Cambridge and are the constant transport used by my housemate to get to work).

I don't believe the A goes to the hotels, it goes up around the lakewood area in North Waltham. The hike from either to the hotel area on 128 would be fairly considerable, not just a block or two, and the year of the convention in Waltham was a deep freeze weekend with a minor ice storm if memory serves.

My housemate attended that year, but myself and my wife didn't. She had transport from a friend of hers for the convention, and even then she managed to fall treking in and out that year and broke her wrist on the icy conditions from the parking lot to the convention.

I know nothing about the 170...

Thank you

[pkdan.livejournal.com]

well, as one of this year's Innkeepers

Thank you again for all your work as Innkeeper. Though we didn't end up getting the exact room we wanted, your efforts (and those of the Liason we talked to) were definitely appreciated.

Re: Thank you

[bobquasit.livejournal.com]

Seconded. Though I wasn't staying at the hotel this year, you guys did prod the hotel to get water service going at the beginning, which was a HUGE help. Thanks!

[scruffycritter.livejournal.com]

I've never been screwed over by the Plaza, but they've done things that have concerned me.

This year for example, I showed up early and tried to check in.

My room wasn't ready yet [Std King], but they did have some Queen rooms available and could put me in one if I didn't want to wait. I thanked them and decided to wait.

Now that awfully sounds nice on one level for them to offer...

But the hotel was sold out. Someone with a Queen room wasn't going to get it, presumably if I did it.

I *hope* that had I said yes, some people who wanted a Queen and showed up later might have gotten a pleasant surprise when they got my King (based on the assumption that a King would be "better" than a Queen...might not be FAIK).

Seemed like a dangerous game to play, IMHO.

[mabfan.livejournal.com]

The Park Plaza goes up and down in quality, year to year. Some years they have been very good to Arisia guests, other years they've screwed up a lot and been almost antagonistic.

[mishmosh.livejournal.com]

I had a problem with the Park Plaza a few years ago. When I went to check out, it was more than it should have been. I inquired why, and they said I ordered room service food. I told them I didn't, and they insisted. Finally, they asked, "Are you so and so?" and I'm like "No, I'm not, how many forms of ID do you want for me to prove it?!" At least in the end, I didn't have to pay for room service that was for the room DOWN from me.

I don't hold Arisia responsible. When I've had room troubles in the past, it's the lovely innkeepers who have helped me out, and for that, I am grateful.

But I have to say this...if you know there is a mistake, fight until you get results. Be polite when you fight. I've worked retail for many years, and in the end...it's all about the customer. :)

[gypsymichaella.livejournal.com]

I will be sad to see arisia leave the boston park plaza..while yes I have had difficulties with them in the past, they are nothing compared to the disaster experience I had the year Arisia was over at the Westin over at Copely..please please don't go there if you decide to move arisia. They sucked..i've never had a more rude crude unhappy experience at a convention hotel then when we stayed at the Westin Copely.
I like the people over at the Boston Park Plaza...especially the Bell Hops and the Bell Captain Norris. It was one of the high points of the con, when we checked out on monday and there was Norris standing there with our bell cart outside our room. He was so glad to see us, he gave us hugs and everything. We've known Norris since my first Arisia in 93 when he was just one of the bell hops, not captain.
And yes, thank you to the Arisia Innkeepers for such a wonderful job making things as smooth as possible for checking in.
Jeanette

[cogitationitis.livejournal.com]

The Park Plaza is a venerable hotel with many idiosyncrasies.

When you check in, always check the room rate--this is true of any hotel; I've been surprised elsewhere. Before you check out, check the bill again on your TV (or at the desk). If you see any problems, get them fixed ASAP. If it escalates, get the con's Hotel Liaison--there's almost always one--because he or she will be on your side.

I'm sorry your friend got stuck without a room Sunday. If she had talked to people, she probably could have found crash space--even Arisia had some.

By the way, so long as you can pay, they can't kick you out. And there is little reason for them to take a deposit, except for dealers; get a hotel liaison for that, too.

[deguspice.livejournal.com]

And there is little reason for them to take a deposit, except for dealers; get a hotel liaison for that, too.

They also will collect a damage deposit if you're in a suite, but the amount should have only been $600. The might also try to collect a small deposit if you pay by cash to cover "incidentals" such as phone bills, pay-per-view movies, room service, ...".

I'm sorry your friend got stuck without a room Sunday. If she had talked to people, she probably could have found crash space--even Arisia had some.

Arisia always has a couple of hotel rooms for staff and gophers to stay in (available on a first-come, first-serve basis).

If you know of someone having a problem at a convention, please send them to Operations (or the equivalent). Someone there should be able to help them or find someone who can.

[dda.livejournal.com]

Arisia always has a couple of hotel rooms for staff and gophers to stay in (available on a first-come, first-serve basis).

We tried to get the word out to staff to go to Ops and get on the "crash space" list. I ended up donating 1/2 my bed to someone who was stuck because the commuter rail got canceled.

[deguspice.livejournal.com]

I ended up with two people (on a borrowed air mattress) in my hotel room Sunday night because their Amtrack canceled their train.

[dda.livejournal.com]

I doubt there was floor space in my room for an air mattress. The person was one of the Event Liaisons and I was being nice and helping her out. As always, there are consequences to such a decision but it was probably still the right thing to do.

park plaza screw-ups

[totient]

The more screw-ups we know about, the stronger negotiation position we are in with the PP when discussing details for '06 or possible future years. So while we wish there had not been any problems, we definitely want to know about any problems that you did have. And if those problems are still unresolved, we can probably help. Please, email hotel@arisia.org to be sure it gets seen by the appropriate person.

[flyingwolf.livejournal.com]

the problem I had was (hopefully, though not confirmed) fixed today. On Saturday I moved my car into valet parking 'cause I didn't want to trudge to the commons in 20" of snow on Sunday. Well, we then stayed til Monday. I paid my share of the room, and 2 nights of parking. When my roommates checked out they paid for their share of the room and were told that a 3rd night of parking was due and would be charged to my card (since I checked in. It was charged. I complained and finally got a call back claiming it would be reversed. Cudos to my roommates for alerting me to this problem 'cause it would have been a month before I would have noticed it and maybe too late to do anything about it. Yeah.. it's only $36... and was only a bit of a time waster, but it shouldn't have happened.

[tikvah.livejournal.com]

I have been to other conferences at the Park Plaza for two other organizations.

The hotel has sucked every time.

However, they invariably provide the cheapest bid for conferences of the size of Arisia and such.

I guess we get what we pay for.

Me, bitter?

Thanks Peter

[civic-oracle.livejournal.com]

Thanks, Peter, for letting us know about the issues your friend had with the hotel this year. We are about to begin the next hotel search process (for a hotel for Arisia '07 and '08). We will bear this info and that which other folks have offered in mind. If you ever have problems with hotel rooms, etc. at an Arisia, please contact Arisia Operations so that our hotel liaison staff can be brought in to assist you.

Buzz
Conchair, Arisia '05 &
Hotel Search Committee Chairperson