Hyatt suddenly lays off housekeepers

[ron_newman]

Some of the staff we all love at the Hyatt were suddenly laid off last month -- after being asked to train their replacements:

Housekeepers lose Hyatt jobs to outsourcing

When the housekeepers at the three Hyatt hotels in the Boston area were asked to train some new workers, they said they were told the trainees would be filling in during vacations.

On Aug. 31, staffers learned the full story: None of them would be making the beds and cleaning the showers any longer. All of them were losing their jobs. The trainees, it turns out, were employees of a Georgia company, Hospitality Staffing Solutions, who were replacing them that day.

Comments

[docorion.livejournal.com]

Well, that is uncommonly scummy.

I am unsure how to best respond, though. Threats to not stay there for the con threaten the con at least as much as the hotel, IMO. If we don't fill our block, are we on the hook for some or all of the rooms?

I want to do something to let Hyatt know that this is not acceptable corporate behaviour. I'm open to suggestions. (Yes, call and complain-working on that angle already; the GM is "in a meeting" and "will call me back". I won't hold my breath, although he likely will call eventually).

[totient]

If we don't fill our block, are we on the hook for some or all of the rooms?

No. But the hotel is so oversubscribed that even 50 or 100 people deciding not to stay there would simply result in other people, not part of the boycott, being able to get rooms, and no difference in revenue to the hotel. It'd take a lot of organization before the Hyatt even noticed what you were up to.

[moechus.livejournal.com]

"It'd take a lot of organization before the Hyatt even noticed what you were up to."

Then it's time to get organizing.

[quietann.livejournal.com]

Agreed, utterly scummy. The 2010 con cannot move -- there is just no place to go on such short notice -- but my "inside line" is working on options for 2011 and onward. (And that's all I can say, really, besides that probably *every* hotel chain is doing this. The only way they save money is by the outsourcing company's housekeepers being paid even less... so some middleman somewhere makes more. GRrrrrrr!)

[smacaski.livejournal.com]

According to the article, hotel chains such as Hilton and Marriott are *not* planning on outsourcing their housekeeping units. If there is a Hilton or Marriott in the Boston area that meets Arisia's requirements, I'd recommend a move to one of them.

[chanaleh.livejournal.com]

Wait, weren't we just boycotting Marriott (http://www.petitionspot.com/petitions/boycottmarriotthotel/) over the blame-the-victim parking-garage rape case? Sigh. Stupid hotel chains.

Maybe Arisia's hotel committee could throw around its weight as valued off-season customer to say to the Hyatt, "Gee, aside from the general scumminess of this little incident, we now have people threatening to skip our convention altogether because of it, and We Are Not Best Pleased." >:-)

[dda.livejournal.com]

We have to continue to work with the Cambridge Hyatt to put on Arisia 2010; pissing them off by "throwing our weight around" isn't going to make that any easier and might well make it significantly more difficult.

If people, as individuals, have an issue with this and will be avoiding the Hyatt as a result, they should contact Hyatt management (i.e. not the Front Desk) and make their opinions known.

[moechus.livejournal.com]

Are you sure that there's no place to go on such short notice? In this economy? I bet there's a lot of unbooked capacity out there and that a little digging would turn up some alternatives.

The real question would then be whether Arisia could get out of its contract with Hyatt (and, if not, what would be the consequences of a breach under these circumstances).

[quietann.livejournal.com]

Certainly not for 2010. The American Library Association convention is the same weekend as Arisia and every single big hotel in Boston is part of that.

Things open up for 2011 and there are contract negotiations underway.

(And per the whole hotel moving issue of a few years ago, there are a tiny number of hotels in New England that come anywhere close to having space for Arisia.)

[dda.livejournal.com]

The real question would then be whether Arisia could get out of its contract with Hyatt (and, if not, what would be the consequences of a breach under these circumstances).

My understanding is that the consequences of a breach in our contract with the Hyatt would be Arisia paying them a lot of money, canceling A'10 and Arisia getting a very bad reputation which would make it more difficult to get into any hotel in the Boston area.

Do you honestly think that another hotel is going to respond well to, "Well, we breached our contract with the Hyatt because they outsourced their housekeeping staff!"??

[vibrantabyss.livejournal.com]

Actually, it is fairly common practice, right down to the deception.

[pierceheart.livejournal.com]

“If you stayed at the Hyatt last night and you bumped into the housekeeper, would you notice a difference?’’

I might - the hotel housekeeping staff were polite, and quite obviously invested in their work, not simply getting a paycheck.

We'll see how the new staff deal with the con - the old staff was at least used to us.

[plumtreeblossom.livejournal.com]

The problem with paying outsourced workers $8hr in Boston's economy is that it renders them profoundly impoverished, to the point where many might have no choice but to steal when they can just to survive and feed their families. I see all kinds of security issues ahead, and I don't put the blame on the outsourced workers. I put it on Hyatt.

[pierceheart.livejournal.com]

I don't put the blame on the outsourced workers. I put it on Hyatt.

I don't - it is a personal choice whether someone steals or not.

I get your point about it being barely subsistence wages ...

[nohwhere-man.livejournal.com]

Excuse me? Choice of job v. no job? What does theft have to do with this?

[pierceheart.livejournal.com]

Did you miss the part where the poster to whom i was responding said this will likely result in more theft, and blamed the Hyatt for potential thefts?

In case you missed it, let me quote it in its entirety:

The problem with paying outsourced workers $8hr in Boston's economy is that it renders them profoundly impoverished, to the point where many might have no choice but to steal when they can just to survive and feed their families. I see all kinds of security issues ahead, and I don't put the blame on the outsourced workers. I put it on Hyatt.

[plumtreeblossom.livejournal.com]

Sometimes it isn't. In situations where someone has so little money that they honestly don't know how they'll eat or feed their children that night, and there's a billfold sticking out of a pair of pants on the floor containing ten $20 bills, the feeling of desperation can be so great as to override ethics. Taking one or two of those $20s, which might not even be missed by the guest, can be hard to resist.

[pierceheart.livejournal.com]

Taking one or two of those $20s, which might not even be missed by the guest, can be hard to resist.

It's still a choice.

Hyatt sure as hell has fucked their employees over, and they are sure as hell paying a craptastic wage to the new employees.

But not one of the new housekeeping staff is being told "steal or you don't work here anymore".

which might not even be missed by the guest
Does that matter?

I mean, we're bitching about a hotel chain fucking the employee over, and, essentially, stealing money from them on a macro basis - but stealing on a micro basis does no damage?

[ron_newman]

Let's not derail this discussion from its original topic -- an indefensible action by Hyatt management.

[dda.livejournal.com]

...an indefensible action by Hyatt management.

Um, how is this action (and which action? The laying off? The outsourcing? The training?) indefensible? While you may not accept their defense, "We'd prefer not to go out of business" seems pretty reasonable to me.

Now I'm sure that there might well be ways to save money at these hotels that don't involve laying off housekeeping people but given that I (and I'm willing to wager, you) don't know their entire finances, it seems unlikely I can pass judgement on this action. Or do you know differently?

Edited better phrase things.

[ron_newman]

Surely top management could have cut their own pay (or everyone's pay) by a tiny amount to save an equivalent amount of money. Laying people off may be 'defensible', but doing so in order to replace the laid-off people with lower-wage workers doing the same work? That's just low. And the lying makes it even worse.

[dda.livejournal.com]

Surely top management could have cut their own pay (or everyone's pay) by a tiny amount to save an equivalent amount of money.

Perhaps so (again, I don't have access to their financial data so I can't say for sure) but I can imagine how I would feel if I was told I was getting a pay cut because Hyatt's in another city weren't profitable.

Laying people off may be 'defensible', but doing so in order to replace the laid-off people with lower-wage workers doing the same work?

I see. I can only assume you are similarly outraged about every company that has done this with either software developers or customer support people (or both). Pretty much every phone company and most computer companies (Apple being an exception) that I've dealt with have their first-line tech support in another country; I am guessing they laid off people here in order to do that.

Has this not been your experience?

[pierceheart.livejournal.com]

I can only assume you are similarly outraged about every company that has done this with either software developers or customer support people (or both).

He very well might be outraged about that.

However, this comment "Well, are you pissed about this OTHER outrage" is classic derailing.

Mind you, I heard nothing complaining about my company outsourcing my entire department after a merger.

[dda.livejournal.com]

However, this comment "Well, are you pissed about this OTHER outrage" is classic derailing.

No, it is asking if he is being consistent; if he's not upset about the same thing happening elsewhere then there is more to this an the stated objections. If he boycotts the Hyatt but doesn't boycott other companies that have done the same thing then he's being inconsistent. He claims the action is indefensible which says to me that it is similarly indefensible when Dell or Sprint or Comcast does it; since it cannot be defended there, either, the same actions should be taken to counter it.

If, as one poster suggested, this outsourcing results in a higher incident of theft by housekeeping staff, it could be suggested that supporting the former employees, and a union supporting them, supports the safety of Arisia's membership.

If there is a higher incidence of theft at Arisia '10 then I strong agree that the Hyatt should be contacted and, if one desires, one can support the former employees and/or a union. But if there is only the suggestion that it might do so, I can just as easily make the suggestion that it will make the new workers that much more eager to keep their jobs and so will lower theft and so Arisia should support this.

Both are just suggestions, after all.

[ron_newman]

I'm not a customer of Dell or Sprint or Comcast. I am a customer of Hyatt, by way of being an Arisia attendee. And this is the Arisia LJ community, which is why I brought the topic up here.

[gravitrue.livejournal.com]

I doubt exec pay adds up to anywhere near that amount of cost savings. But the lying puts them over the edge.

[grymdragon.livejournal.com]

The layoffs and outsourcing, while handled in a manner that gives little consideration to veteran employees, could be rationalized as an unfortunate necessity in the current economic climate.

However, deceiving the outgoing staff so that they'll train their replacements as a way of saving a few bucks on a training program is utterly indefensible. If they were in danger of losing their jobs, the staff deserved to know as soon as possible so they could start looking for a new job, which is difficult enough under normal circumstances.

[dda.livejournal.com]

The layoffs and outsourcing, while handled in a manner that gives little consideration to veteran employees...

From the article referenced by the OP: The dismissed workers received two weeks of pay when they were let go, plus one week of pay for every year they worked at the Hyatt up to five or 10 years, depending on the hotel.

Since the entire group (minus one or two people) were laid off, I'd say there was plenty of consideration to veteran employees.

However, deceiving the outgoing staff so that they'll train their replacements as a way of saving a few bucks on a training program is utterly indefensible.

That does sound quite less than optimal which is why I originally asked what ron_newman which part he found indefensible.

[grymdragon.livejournal.com]

I think consideration to senior employees, particularly those who have been there for 20 years such as the housekeeper interviewed in the article, would have been to make some sort of accomodation, even if it was limited to allowing them to retain their position at a lower rate of pay.

Sure, two or three months of pay is great, but once that money runs out, it's going to be much harder for older employees to find jobs in this market than younger employees.

[vibrantabyss.livejournal.com]

Compare to other companies that have done the same, like AT&T wireless (hello iPhone users) and to places like BoA that are up front about training replacements but will [threaten to] withhold all severance pay should the employee refuse.

And the severance the Hyatt folks were give (if the below is correct) is about twice what companies give on average (as days-of-pay).

Not that extra cash excuses such behavior, mind you.

[ron_newman]

This practice is evil no matter who is doing it. If the Hyatt incident leads to a general public backlash against such practices, that's all the better.

[vibrantabyss.livejournal.com]

This way of doing business is status quo. The companies that do it make better margins, do better in the market, and in tough times... survive. This is Spart.. no, wait, this is capitalism, at its coldest. But that is the system this country embraces.

If you have not been aware that business has functioned and thrived like this for more than the last 20 years, then you haven't been paying attention.

[archangelbeth]

Oh no! O:( I will surely miss the old ones, if this doesn't get turned 'round somehow. It was neat to see them go from kind of wild-eyed about the con costumes to leaning over the balconies in what seemed more interested amusement.

Is there anything we can do to express our dismay to the company?

[pierceheart.livejournal.com]

if this doesn't get turned 'round somehow

Not going to happen.

This really is scummy...

[taura-g.livejournal.com]

I was planning on booking a room this year since I will have the resources again for the first time in a while... but I may end up going for the backup hotel instead.

[miss-lisa-ma.livejournal.com]

Well...has anyone thought about inviting a union that represents hotel workers to have a booth at Arisia as one of our "vendors"? Would our contract let us get away with that? (We might only get away with it once, but the point will have been made.)

[ron_newman]

I like this idea. That would be UNITE HERE Local 26.

[miss-lisa-ma.livejournal.com]

According to one poster at Boston.com's comments thread *please note I haven't verified this yet*--looks like SEIU was on the verge of unionizing staff. If that is correct, then the mass firing may possibly be considered illegal anti-union activity. I'm not an expert on that part of the law, nor do I have enough of the inside details to know for sure. But I have been part of the larger SEIU universe for a while, so I may be able to get more info through the grapevine.

I know we can't move the 2010, but given the outpouring of support for the fired housekeeping staff in just hours, we may not HAVE to move 2011. I think some executive somewhere might find himself on the unemployment line after generating such bad PR.

[wickedgoodgrrrl.livejournal.com]

I know three people who've been involved with the SEIU, too, and I will probably see them at a party this weekend. I am passing on this story to them, for whatever good it may do.

[dda.livejournal.com]

I don't volunteer in the dealers row division but I'm guessing you'd have to make a case that these folks somehow support Arisia's mission rather than, say, representing your own political beliefs.

I would suggest contacting dealers@arisia.org ASAP to find out more.

[pierceheart.livejournal.com]

If, as one poster suggested, this outsourcing results in a higher incident of theft by housekeeping staff, it could be suggested that supporting the former employees, and a union supporting them, supports the safety of Arisia's membership.

[nohwhere-man.livejournal.com]

Perhaps the proper thing to do is -wait- a month to see what's really happening, then start sending letters to the Hyatt corporate office, and if you work for a large company, consider CC-ing it's travel office. That'll get Hyatt's attention. (May not do any good, but they might notice.)

[perspicuity.livejournal.com]

and best to complain about not supporting the local economy either... outsourcing to GA? sweet. though they are a [inter?]national company, so perhaps they don't think local and/or pissing in the local water is okay.

#

[miss-lisa-ma.livejournal.com]

I think waiting, even a couple of days, might be a wise idea. I have a feeling that unfolding events may present us either a solution or an option for action.

If one or more of the local unions aren't in front of the Hyatt tomorrow morning with one bad-ass picket line, I'd be shocked. The size and level of anger against Hyatt on the Boston.com comments thread surprised me. People are posting the Hyatt's corporate email info, the fact that Pres. Obama's campaign finance chair was a member of the family that owns Hyatt, and TONS of people have already alerted Hyatt that they will no longer stay there or book conventions/events there. Let's consider letting these things play out for at least a day or three, then revisit.

[pierceheart.livejournal.com]

The size and level of anger against Hyatt on the Boston.com comments thread surprised me.

Not me - I have seen tons of vocal online support for various issues, but actually putting boot leather on the ground?

That's beneath many of Boston's finest commentors.

As for boycotts, how badly is Nestle doing?

[gravitrue.livejournal.com]

some boycotts work, others don't.

[ron_newman]

from the Globe story: "the Hyatt housekeepers were not part of the union but reached out to Local 26, which is organizing a picket and rally in support of the housekeepers today at 5 p.m. at the downtown [Boston] Hyatt."

[noeltheone.livejournal.com]

Arisia will most likely not be in the Hyatt in 2011.

---Hotel Liaison, Arisia '10
---Chair, Arisia, Inc. Hotel Search Committee